The Relational Man (Ep. #6, The C3 Man)

This week we welcome Frank Lawrence, for an interview about community, doing hard things together, and lacing your life with wildness and fun - on mission.

Christ Community Church Little Rock
A community transformed by grace sent to transform the world for the glory of God.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Over the past five weeks, we've been gathering for the C3 man series. Who has enjoyed a donut or kalachi by show of hands? Alright, this is the week to thank Bill Davis. Bill Davis has been the one picking those up for the week. I called him beat the wrong last name this morning, and I just feel deeply in my heart that we must honor him. I have shaved him by calling him the I just my my brain at five in the morning doesn't work too well. Man, it's so good to see you guys. So glad that you're here. Um okay, I want to start with a question. How would you, and you can you can talk back to me here, how would you explain or define a kiss in one word or maybe a couple words? How would you describe a kiss?

unknown 0:56

Magic.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

Magic. Sweet. Sweet? Yes. What else?

SPEAKER_06 1:04

Connection kissed me back.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Connection she kissed you back? Okay. That's really good. Glad to hear that. Anything else? How would you explain or describe a kiss? It's a pretty good word so far. What if what if someone explained? What if I said to you a kiss is when two mandibles press up against each other and exchange digestive fluid. What would you say? You would say, well, that's not wrong. Especially if you're a doctor in the room. That is technically correct, but that's not a kiss at all. You've missed what a kiss is. There is a way in which we can talk about things that, though technically are correct, they could not be further from the truth. And that's how a lot of people talk about God and Christianity and the gospel. And sometimes you've got to pause and reframe how this conversation is going. Technically, that's correct, but you're missing the essence of it. And I think that's what we can apply to our conversation this morning, which is on community. This morning we're going to get into community. The first four weeks of our C3 man, we've really been defining the biblical man. You can't talk about the C3, the Christ Community Church man, without first going at the biblical man. And now we've pivoted. Last week we talked about biblical. We had Jeff Turk up here. This week we're talking about community, about relational. These are the C3 values, biblical, relational. Next week we'll be missional with Greg Curtis, and then we'll get into simple. These are our values as a church. And as we approach this super important topic of community, what it means to be relational, we can really talk about it in a way that technically is correct, but it could not be further from the truth. Because when you think community, when you think relationship, that can be, it can mean all things. Which then can mean nothing at all. And so that's kind of the trick this morning is what do we mean by community? What do we mean by relational? Because Christianity would be super easy if it was just me and Jesus. But I gotta deal with y'all, and that makes it really hard. And y'all gotta deal with me, and that makes it really hard. Community is awkward, it's self-sacrificing, it's costly, it's just weird, and it's really, really difficult. And right now, in this cultural moment, we are in a community crisis. There is a loneliness epidemic. Guys don't know how to connect. We and sometimes we don't even want to connect. And so, what do we do about that? Well, let me start by saying when we say community, and when we talk about our value at Christ Community Church as relational, that's like a code word, it's like shorthand for the 59 that I've counted in the New Testament commands in the Bible to one another. There are 59 direct commands to honor one another, to love one another, do not provoke one another, forgive one another, comfort one another, bear another's burdens, all these that we've heard, that is what we believe. That's what we mean by community, and that's really hard. That's really awkward. We at the Christ Community Church, we believe in the apostles' creed. We agree with it. I believe in the Father Almighty, the Lord Jesus Christ, on and on and on. And then we get to a line towards the bottom where it says we believe in one universal or Catholic Church. And then there's this line, and then underneath it is we believe in the forgiveness of sins. So what is in between? We believe in one universal church and the forgiveness of sins. Anybody know? The communion of saints. You and I, as Bible-believing Christians, as members of Christ's Communion Church, we believe in the communion of saints deeply. That's what we're talking about this morning. I owe you guys. I morally owe you guys the best of who I can be in Christ by the power of the Spirit. You deserve a pastor. That is what you are owed, that walks in integrity. You owe me the absolute best. Paul says in the New Testament: do your best to present yourself to God as a living sacrifice. Do your best. You owe me that. We owe each other that. That's what we mean by the communion of saints. How dare I betray you and all who have gone before us. It's our moment now. It's our moment. Why would we not go all in for each other? That's what we mean by the communion of saints. And we've been talking in Genesis 2, as Toby just mentioned, and we've mentioned, and we've been using this language of gardens. And it's really nice and clean. Now I know that when we've been walking through our gardens, it's it's hard. There's always weeds, there's things that are on fire, there's parts we haven't explored yet that we need to venture into. But it gets really kind of three-dimensional when you start thinking about each of you in different capacities are in my garden. And I am in your garden. And so there's like this 3D overlapping of all of our gardens, because they overlap, they interfere, they get in each other's business. And so, how does that work? Well, I want to go through five quick points, really quick points. It won't be five minutes, maybe five minutes from here out, Toby, of what community is, of what we find in Genesis 1 and 2. First, I've got five quick points for us. First, community is an act of creating. You can write these down. Community is an act of creating. In Genesis 1, we find it. Then God said, Let us make. One being, three persons. And what does he do? He makes. He creates you in your community. In your marriage, in your family, in your friendships, on your sports team, with your work, in your play? Let me ask you a question. What are you creating? You and your wife are creating something. You and your son are creating something. You and your friends, when you all get together, you are creating. There is a vibe, there is a garden, if you will. What are you making? When people walk into this church, into this room, how do they feel? Men, what are we right now creating? The culture of this room, of this church, does not have very much to do with me. But you, singular, you. You can change. You are creating. That's what we mean by community is an act of creating. Second, community is the treasuring of differences. Community is the treasuring of differences. And Genesis 10 and 12, we haven't talked about it yet. There's a lot we could get into. But we read this and it's right in the middle of the passage. We read this a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden. And there divided and became four rivers. The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah. We don't care about all that. Where there is gold. But look at verse 12. And the gold of that land is good. There in the beginning, before sin, God creates a better gold in one place than another. And so differences, some things being better than others is not a result of the fall. That land, in the Pishon, the whole land of Havilah, that place didn't just have gold, it had good gold. Here's my point. Then when we are in community, the quickest way to destroy it is to look at the differences in the strengths of the people that you are in community with and envy that, and therefore lose all joy. We are very good, you and I, at looking at how good other people are. And we're good at tearing them down or justifying or just cratering personally. I look around, I see, and I know a lot of you guys, and I see the way you talk and the way you work and the way you think. And it's like I could just start cratering because I feel so less than, so unqualified. But biblical community is a celebration and a contentment that the gold of that land, the good of that man, is good. And so community is a treasuring of differences. As well, community is a treasuring of unity. Community. It's right in the word. We read in Genesis 2.23, this at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. Never say that to another man. That's weird. But the principle is there. There is within humanity this level of unity that we can have with each other. Where we look at someone, it's like what C. S. Lewis said, right?

unknown 11:41

C.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

S. Lewis said, a friendship is born when you look at another person and say, What? You two? I thought I was the only one. That's when a friendship is born. And so in community, there's the celebration of unity. Well we look at someone else and we say, okay, we have a kindred spirit. We have a shared interest. We like to play basketball together. We like to work out together. We like to play board games together. Hey, I see you at church every Sunday. You sit right next to me. Why is that? There's this unity, and we celebrate the reality that there are other people God has made that we no longer have to be alone. We are with each other. And that is an awesome thing. Okay, I told you I'm flying. Fourth, community saves you from yourself. This is where it gets scary, because we like ourselves. Here's the problem, Genesis 2.18, that the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone. Now we know in Genesis 2, the context then, God brings him a bride, the Azer, Eve. But Eve does not satisfy the soul of Adam. If you're married in here, your wife does not satisfy the soul. We need more than that. Ultimately, we need more than man, more than other humans. We need God. But this is real. It is not good that the man should be alone. We need each other. And we need each other in a really specific way. Ray Orton Sr. wrote in a book, Lord, make my life a miracle. There are lots of evangelical loners. Here wrote this book, I think, 50 years ago. They really do love Jesus, but they don't love his church too much. It's incongruous and it's sin. Real fellowship calls for gutsy commitment. You know, even Toby opening up with Frank, who we're about to hear from, just tapping on the shoulder and challenging. That is a gutsy commitment. I mean, is that phrase convicting for you, as it is for me? Gutsy commitment. Community is commitment. You need guys that will help pull you out of yourself. Toby didn't want to make a plan. Frank forced him to. Guess what? 2019, I got to be in a little group with Toby, and uh right before COVID hit, and he challenged me to make a plan. And I made a plan. And I didn't fall through with it too good, but I made a plan, and every year I'm getting better. I had no idea that I came from Frank. And I thought that was Frank's idea. Maybe it was. He'll tell us more about it. The point is, we need to be called out of ourselves, and we need to call other people out of ourselves. That is gutsy commitment. Fifth and last, community is a taste of the wild. Men remember, we as men were not made back at the very primal in Genesis 2 in Eden. We were not made in the garden. Adam was made in the wild. And then he was placed in the garden to expand the garden into the wild, to always be in the wild and bring the garden into them. That was the call. Subdue, have dominion, bring this garden into the wild. The wild is good for us. And other people call us and pull us into the wild. Again, to get out of ourselves. All of us have a comfort zone, we have a wild zone, and we have a danger zone. We will stay in our comfort zone. We don't need to be in our danger zone. But we need to be in that stretch zone, that wild zone, and friends, and marriage, and work and community and church pulls us into the wild. Where we're not very comfortable, but man, that's where life is lived. Last quote for you. Same author, Ray Ortland Sr. This is his, this is what he called the company of the committed. And this is what I pray for this church so often. Is when men look at other men and say, I'm responsible for you. Let me pause there for a second. Let's say someone in your community group has an affair. Do you take share, do you take responsibility for that in some sense? In a biblical community, the answer is yes. Not fully. No way. But if someone is having an affair and you're not dug in enough to even sense something that's different, I mean, that's not biblical community. That's what we're called to. This gutsy interfering. My garden is in yours. I see something different in you. And I've watched you stray. This actually doesn't surprise me. Hey, I've noticed your eyes jumping around when we're out. Hey, I've noticed you secretly pulling out your phone at times. Hey, you've been off. Digging. We have a responsibility. You know what I mean by that. Don't hear what I'm not saying. We are not responsible for it, but I am responsible for you. You are responsible for me. Back to the quote. Everything I have is yours. What does that sound like? Acts 2? Use me. I will agonize over your kids. And you agonize over mine. Teach me what you know in the word, and I'll teach you what I know. Here's where I'm weak. Hold me accountable. Y'all remember last week when Jeff Turk shared his If Satan wins letter? That's a great thing to have a conversation with your community, with the men in your life, especially and with your wife. Hey, here are the three ways that my life would get ruined real quick. It would be porn. It would be sports betting. It would be, you go down the list and you say, here's how I access those things. Access those things. That's what we do. We open up our lives and say, if I was Satan, here's how he'd attack me. Hold me accountable and pray for me. Let's learn together to worship God.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

That's all I've got. Was that okay? Was that quick enough? How quick was that?

SPEAKER_05 18:19

I've done better. I've done better. Well, I'll tell you what. Let's move on to the real meat of the morning. Okay. I would love to invite up Frank Lawrence. He is the CEO, managing partner of Little Rock Athletic Centers. He says what makes for a great club and life is exceptional facilities. Hey, we've got that too. Check. Genuine community. I hope you have something good to say about that, Frank. And oh, thank you for setting this up for me. And intentional programming. Can you guys welcome up? Welcome up, Frank. Okay.

unknown 19:01

Golly.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

I'm not on today, man. I'm not. Okay, Frank, come on up, brother. Frank, would you please tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yeah, thanks, Justin. So Frank Lawrence, so Arkansas native. And have been in the health club business now for going on 14 years. Retired banker, spent about 30 years in the banking world. Have two grown kids, and I just celebrated my 39th year of first date with my wife. So we've been married about 33 years. And yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 19:36

30 years of banking, 39 years of dating. Have you stopped dating your wife? Are you still doing it? No, constantly. Praise God. Praise God. Love that. Men are so bad at making friends. The reason why I wanted you even up here, I'm so glad Toby said some of it, is I've never seen people draw triangles as good as you. You are the expert triangle drawer. You just are a connector. How do you develop a community? How have you done it?

SPEAKER_03 20:06

In most of it, for me, one of my good friends now said, Hey, I need to add something else onto my life. And that kind of comment that he made just on one of our adventures really stuck with me. And the conclusion for me on that is just invite people to go do life with you. So if I'm gonna go work out, which I don't like to do, by the way, I'm gonna invite you to go with me. If uh I'm gonna have coffee, come with me. If I'm gonna do lunch, come with me. My wife and I kind of have a commitment, she has a gift of hospitality. Let's have people over to our house for dinner. So it's about inviting people to just do life with me. I love that. You're already doing stuff. Bring people in, just invite. Yeah, and again, the practical point to that is I don't need to add one more thing onto my life.

SPEAKER_05 21:02

That is such a barrier.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Bring people along with you.

SPEAKER_05 21:05

Now we want to make friends, but we don't just want to make friends. We want to we want to make an impact. I've seen you do that.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Um, how how do you do that? Yeah, so when you invite people along, so I'll give you a good example of that. So Justin and I we we gotten to know each other through this event called uh Silmore 25K or 50k. So this is a trail run uh that's been going on now uh for 25 years or so. It's the worst. Don't don't sign it up. Oh my god. So when you get the invite, come along with that. So I've done it I've done it probably for the last 20 years, and over that 20 year period of time, we invite people to come along and do that event with us. We'll we'll uh rent some houses. This is up in Mountain View on the Silmore Creek where it joins the White River. We'll rent some houses, and so the event is The reason, but then it's about developing the relationship. So we'll rent houses, we'll get pizza, we'll watch uh sports or whatever, but we also then have a time much like this where we ask some big questions alive, and we get to know each other at a little bit different level, and because we've suffered together in the event, all of a sudden you kind of have permission to go a little bit deeper. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 22:25

Having having friends, making an impact on them, sure, like that's not that's not easy. I'm sure it has costs. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Yeah, look, I the there there are costs, right? I mean, for those of you who are married or have had long time relationships, it's it's a lot of work. And you know, people ask me, what are you most proud of in life at this point? And I'm starting to get to that age where where you look back more than you do looking forward, and and the relationship with my wife and my family, those are obviously my biggest accomplishments. But the cost of that is is real work and being intentional, making the effort uh to uh make those connections. Well, I learned a term this weekend which uh I loved uh and I stole it, is around a benevolent detachment. And what that term really means is that uh by you making the investment and the commitment to uh be intentional in that, you're not responsible for the outcome. God's responsible for that outcome. And so when you have those disappointments when you're trying to build relationships or you think things should go one way and it goes another way, you need to be benevolent, detached from the outcome of that. And you know, that's part of the great adventure is when things go unexpected and you get to kind of have a front row seat to see where it goes.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Did you okay, just you talking about all this, just kind of going just off the cuff, right? You like it is you being a connector, you liking people because what one thing I meant to say, man, is that we we're all called a community, we must have a depth of commitment. We're not called to be friends with everyone, okay, and like feel that freedom, that benevolent attachment. Uh you don't have to be best friends with everyone. And also, the call of the Christian is not to be an extrovert. Okay, that's not what's going on here. But in those relationships, in that community that we do have, um you know, then we talk about all these things. What like what made you like did you have someone in your life that you watched be such a connector? I I mean, God made you the way you are. Praise to him. But like you just where did you learn how to do this?

SPEAKER_03 24:46

My brother, who we're incredibly close, and he's a real turd, by the way. So I'm not saying I saw Stone over here in MES Brothers, and so they're probably turds to him as well. Um he would say it's because I'm incredibly selfish, right? Um and there's probably some real truth in that. He sounds like a turd. And so I think that um I look, I think maybe I was gifted in that. I was the kid that organized the neighborhood sandlot game, right? And I lived um in a small town for seven years, and we had keys to the basketball gym of the high school and the college, and you know, this was back before you really even had cell phones, and you had to call 10 guys or nine other guys to make sure that they showed up. But I was one of those guys that organized that. So, I mean, maybe I did have some of that gifting, but um, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think my dad was always inclusive, and we invited people along to do things with us. Um, but at the end of the day, I do also think that that's really what God calls us to do, is to love other people, right? Uh and include. And so that's that's I think what it's about.

SPEAKER_05 26:04

Would your brother say that you're selfish because you would gather everyone and then you'd make yourself a captain? Yeah, is that what it was?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Maybe, and then I don't want to suffer alone, right? I mean, I don't really, I don't like to work out. Like I said, I don't like to do some of these things, but by having other people go along with me, it makes it better. And it is about the relationships in the community. One of my one of my great stories is Toby um went on a bike ride. He doesn't go on bike rides with me anymore, but we went on a bike ride and we were out west out here, and and uh we were I don't know, we were a long way in, and Toby was we stopped to rest for a second. Toby was really ready to be finished, and uh he said, guys, somebody needs to pee some blood, or he's not gonna stop. And so a suffering component of the back, uh, which is what it's you know, I think it makes me better, so right.

SPEAKER_06 27:00

So that's why I invite people along. Yeah, no one's coming on a bike ride with you anymore, and that's what happens with Silmore, too.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

Um, we've talked a lot this and I even this morning uh this semester about being being wild, what that means and what that doesn't mean. Um how have you what is community? How has that brought you into the wild? How have you brought others into the wild? What and what has that done for your soul as you think about your just your masculinity, just your your humanness, you know, just being in the wild, in community. Yeah, I mean while you're talking, I want to I want to play just show some of these pictures because you've got a bunch of cool ones.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Yeah, so you know, I'm from Arkansas, so I'm a redneck at heart. So I I enjoy uh I enjoy the outdoors, I enjoy being active.

SPEAKER_05 27:50

Um, you know, uh I'm looking for Toby on this picture.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Yeah. He's he's moved outside of that because he never showed back up. And um, you know, that's the other thing is when you're inviting people along to do some of these adventures, there are going to be some dead bodies along the way, like Toby, that just don't come back. But that's okay, that's benevolent attachment. Um I think being being outside for me is a big part of it. Uh, being active outdoors, uh obviously. Uh but more important than that, uh, you guys may follow if you've never followed a guy named Jesse Isler, uh, I encourage you to look up this guy named Jesse Isler. He's not a believer, he's a Jewish guy actually. And uh, but he has a real simple formula for living life, and it's kind of a 164 formula. And the one is uh uh every year set a Masotti. And a Masotti is kind of this just really uncomfortable, life-changing challenge. This is this picture right here is is uh Bill Davis was talking about flying today. We we landed a plane on a beach on the Pacific Ocean in Alaska, and you know it'll take your breath away to think about that, right? But that adventure to Alaska uh was a Masogee that particular year, and then the other thing is the six is six mini adventures. So going along on six mini adventures throughout the year, and then the four is having four key habits that kind of shape your life. So that's kind of a formula he lives. But the key thing about a Masogee, and really this is one of my goals that I share my plan with Toby, is I want to be a little uncomfortable every day. This is my uncomfortable moment for the day. Uh in a in an open setting like this, but it's I want to be uncomfortable every day. And I think that's part of nature, part of the wild, part of the adventure that we're on.

SPEAKER_05 29:55

I love you use the word adventure a lot of times now.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

That that word seems important to you. Maybe it's because I was a kid of the yeah, or or I was I came to faith kind of in the 80s and 90s, and Stephen Curtis Chapman was big, and you know, that's one of my favorite songs, is The Great Adventure. So if you've ever heard that song, go go listen to that when you leave today. But I think what's cool about doing life the way I try to do it, um, is that God's given me this front row seat to just see how things go. And you know, Bill Davis, who I really didn't know, Bill, we met last semester um at Midge Group. Um, and I still don't know Bill very well. But I said, Bill, I want you to meet another guy, and he's met that other guy, they've gone to lunch a few times, and again, to see where that goes, that's part of the great adventure.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Drawing triangles, yeah, it's what you do best. It's so selfish of you. Just there is a selfish mode in there. I love that. I love that. Um, so as we kind of come to an end of the conversation, um Frank, what is like a burden on your soul that you would love to share with these men?

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Yeah, I think again, I know you guys are are using a few different terms, but for me 26 years ago, 27 years ago, the definition of manhood that some of you maybe have seen or heard from um uh Robert Lewis and then's fraternity uh was incredibly impactful uh for me. And you know, that's uh accepting responsibility, rejecting passivity, uh, leading courageously and expecting a greater reward. And it was so impactful that in this picture, my brother's in there, my two best friends from college are in that picture, my dad's in that picture, and one of our other friends from college is there. But it's so impactful that that became a basis for how we did life. And those guys, uh, you saw a picture maybe of some turkeys uh in there. We've been doing a trip to Texas for the last 23 years, and we committed at that point, uh, that was about the time I heard Robert give that talk. We committed, we made um a family crest. Uh, this ring then became a symbol of that. And we had eight boys among that, the four of us, took them on that trip every when they turned 13. So they've all been on that trip. We're now starting to recycle them on that trip because we've been going so many years. But the key thing is that we uh are are living that found that brand framework or that foundation of uh of manhood. And I think the key phrase for me and all about, and that one thing, Justin, is to reject passivity. It's uncomfortable to ask guys to go to lunch. It's uncomfortable to say, hey, come come do this run with me or come do this workout with me, but reject that passivity and and make the ask, make the invite.

SPEAKER_05 33:07

I love that. Frank, um, it seems like if I would kind of sum up, just in the most simple phrases, because we're we're simple men. If a friendship is born when you look at another guy and you think, what? What? I thought I was the only one. You two? How you further that friendship, how you step in the community to just say, Come with me. That is just such a next best step. Just come with me, and which is uncomfortable, and like we can do something uncomfortable together. You know, we can build up towards a Masoki, this big adventure adventure where it's like, let's sit across the table and let's just share a meal together, right? And let's talk. Let's let's plan a trip with and let's bring our kids or let's bring our wives or let's let's have five guys and let's renovate. I mean, it just it all starts from there. Let's do something. We're interested in something.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Now come with me. Yeah, I think you know, be intentional, yeah, make the invite and include people.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Amen. Well, man, uh, we have a couple minutes.

SPEAKER_06 34:12

I'd love to hear if anybody has any questions for for Frank, uh, put them on the spot. Toby, you know how to ask some very difficult questions. Uh the floor is yours. I'm more comfortable with someone else than all right.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Okay.

unknown 34:39

I have to do this with a four question. I'm gonna try to report it on the other. Can you tell the truth?

SPEAKER_02 34:47

When you invite, do you do the invite really get a clear picture of the adventure they're about to go on?

unknown 34:58

You don't ask questions.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

It's kind of like five club. You just show up. Yeah, don't ask questions.

unknown 35:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

I'm I'm in a group text letter to the frame, and it's always show up here at this time. And it's like, what are we doing? It's amazing. You had a question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

What was the name of the person that you get that was Sony type of room? Yeah, Jesse Isler. How do you spoke? I T Z L E R. Okay. There's also that there's a there's a book called The Comfort Crisis. Yeah, another book by a guy named Michael Easter. Yeah. The Comfort Crisis. He's a non-believer, but just an incredible writer, adventuresque. He has something to say about that as well.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, well this isn't well formulated, but and it's a little cynical for him. So when you reach out to people, you don't know them.

unknown 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

And as Christians, we're trying to bring people in.

unknown 35:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Well, it's a lot easier to pull somebody off the school than it is to pull somebody onto the school. So the risk is like you see somebody who's struggling, or you have somebody who's a non-believer, when you're intentionally building community and bringing people in, how are you mitigating the risk of bringing them up without them bringing you down?

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Yeah, I mean, I think it so to me to use the term relationship ministry, I mean, doing these things, you know, getting, going on an adventure, having building a relationship with someone gives me that right or earns that uh opportunity to share price with them, right? And so um, I don't know, uh, you know, and and either they're gonna either get on board or or not, right? I mean, there's some dead bodies along the way of that process. And so, but I think that's part of that great adventure for me is that I I try to include lots of non-believers in what we're doing because this is um you know this is the mission field for me.

SPEAKER_06 37:05

So and Frank, something that this might answer your question.

SPEAKER_05 37:09

Well, something I've well some something that I've seen you do so well is you're not jumping so much into this unbeliever's world. You're pulling them into your world. You've got your crew, you've got your core, and they get to see how you're interacting with your people. You're kind of bringing them into that environment. I'm sure that there are other environments I've not seen you where you're you know, there's in-between and one-on-ones and that sort of thing, but I think that's a big part of even just relational ministry is showing people your aquarium. This is this is one way to live.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

This is the way of the kingdom. Yeah, for sure. Look, I drink a lot of beer and wine and smoke some cigars and all that too, right? So that's important.

unknown 37:50

That's important.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

So I get I get the sense you're not that busy, sounds like so you feel uh my friends would tell you something. I don't know if we're the right one. Yeah, I don't know if you're the right one. It's a question around capacity, yeah. Just being spread too thin. Maybe just talk about sounds like we're kind of wired to this direction, but getting out of extraction, and obviously you're not what you're gonna do at this point.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

So yeah, yeah. I mean, again, there's a great quote uh by James Mitchler, and I'm not gonna give it to you exactly, but it's basically for me, there's no distinction between work and play, leisure, etc. It's all the same. Everything I do is is intentional, and it's up for you to determine whether I'm working or I'm playing, right? And so, because I'm really doing both most of the time. And and again, it's that idea of inviting people along to do life with you versus adding something like that to it. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_06 38:53

Earlier there was kind of a year ago, whatever catalyst.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah, I mean, I think it's obviously a culmination of lots of years, right? And mentality was a big part of that, and and having that intentionality and and you know uh trying to build that framework. Toby talked about that plan, and that's something that probably started kind of the ethos of that. Putting it on paper was 20-something years ago, and it's developed and continues to develop every year, but being very intentional and having a list of names, you know, constantly writing names down. I thought we call it the hit list. Um, and some of that's again believers, non-believers, but who's on the hit list, right? And so who are we targeting? Maybe it's because I always wanted to be a Navy SEAL or special forces guy, and and that part of this great adventure for me is kind of being you know, under the radar, but yeah, very intentional in what I'm trying to do. I don't know if that answers your question or not, but yeah. So it's a it's a developing dynamic process, but writing it down and having some level of intentionality, but it's also very simple. Just put some names on the list. Yeah, yeah. I mean, don't you don't have to, it doesn't have to be elaborate.

SPEAKER_05 40:13

Frank, everything you're saying is simple. It's really hard, but it's so simple. It's so doable.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

This is all actionable. Yeah, and then keep yourself embraced in that. So, like I mentioned, my wife and I love to have people over for dinner, you know. Instead of, oh, every Thursday night we're gonna have somebody over for dinner. Well, our goal is probably three and a quarter, right? Okay, well, three and a quarter, that's nine different couples or uh 18 different couples that maybe come over over the course of the year. Well, that's hopefully pretty impactful uh by doing that, right? So instead of it's trying to set those realistic goals and giving yourself some grace in that process.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Let's do a last question back here. Explain uh what uh small town did you grow up in and organize all these uh activities?

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Well, so I I grew up in uh I grew up in Russell, Dardanelle, um uh so Yale County, Pope County, uh River Valley Boy, uh somewhat like Toby. We didn't we didn't know each other back in those days, but had that in common, and then um uh went to Hendricks and Conway and and uh Arkansas.

SPEAKER_05 41:22

So guys, can y'all give it up for Frank?

SPEAKER_03 41:33

I know you're about to break out into takeaways. I would encourage you today to write uh to text someone or call someone and and make that coffee appointment, lunch appointment, um, and and use that as the practical takeaway for the day. Is is make that one reach out uh today when you leave a room. That's so powerful.